Reading Problems 27C1024

By: fxseller - 2007-12-03 19:22:44

hey at all!

first of all i wanna say, this forum is really great! i have allready read some topics in matter of reading problems but i cant help me anymore.

i've got a Advanced Willem EPROM Programmer Update Software          0.98D5
Addition Adapter 24,93C & 27C(EPROM16bit)PLCC Extractor

and i want to read a Plcc44 - 27C1024

i already tried it (by the way u wont get an error message by reading the chip - thats what i read in other topics) but it doesnt read the chip fine, cause when i want to open the allready read binary file, my program says: theres a trouble with this bin file, its not complite. when i do open another binary file from the internet, it opens it fine and its got a whole diffucult structure!
so theres a problem by readin the chip with willem programmer.
i do somethin wrong!

When i wanna read the chip first of all:

1. i open the  EpromM51.exe
2. then i choose the eprom 27C1024/27C210
3. after that i control the VPP settings from 1-12
4. finaly i click read chip

but it doesnt work..
what could be wrong? do i have to choose another setting? i cant help me anymore..

hope someone of u can help me.
thank u for answering!

Re: Reading Problems 27C1024

By: DL - 2007-12-03 20:15:07

Hi,

Can you post more info on your 16bit adapter?  The version I have has two sets of sockets (DIP40 and DIP42); 27C1024 would use the PLCC44 socket corresponding to the DIP40 socket.

Is your programmer set to PCB45C?  If not, devices won't read correctly.

What OS are you using?  If it's WinXP, make sure you have printer port polling is disabled or you're likely to experience inadvertent writing (unless your programmer has a VPP disable feature -- few do...).  If you notice VCC or VPP being enabled randomly, you need the hack.  There's a registry edit in the downloads section.  It stopped working for me around SP2 and I had to disable legacy plug/play support on my printer port to stop polling.  I had many EPROMs programmed while I was blank verifying before I realized the registry mod stopped working...

HTH,
Dennis

Re: Reading Problems 27C1024

By: fxseller - 2007-12-03 20:39:54

hi Dennis,

first of all, thank u for your quick help!

i uploaded a picture about the adapter and another about the programmer, i think we both have the same one!


www.free.pages.at/dctuning/1.jpg
www.free.pages.at/dctuning/2.jpg


i dont know the difference between PCB45 and PCB45C. but i think my jumper is set on PCB45. the silver, and the gold one are both on the left side - PCB45 <-> PCB3B (but u can see it on the photo, quite left)

yes i do have WinXP, also SP2. i hope this will be the reason end my problem!  
ill download the registry edit in a few minutes and will test it.
perhaps u can give advice about other possible problems? perhaps my jumpers r set wrong?

after the registry edit ill post if its done or not

Greetz
Artur

Re: Reading Problems 27C1024

By: fxseller - 2007-12-03 21:15:39

used the reg hack.. but also the same problem  

Re: Reading Problems 27C1024

By: DL - 2007-12-03 22:24:17

Hi,

If printer port polling was contributing to your problems, it would be overwriting data in the EPROM.  That would be a problem if you don't have a copy of the original data and your device can't be erased (does it have a quartz window?).  It seems that eraseable devices in a LCC type package aren't the norm, but I have some 27C4096 in that package...

I can't view your pictures; company firewall is blocking it as a social engineering threat...  I take it that you don't have the attach option below the text entry box...

PCB45 and PCB45C are the same.  I thought Sivava was the only one selling it and it would be a PCB4.5C; not to be confused with a Willem 4.5.  On programmers with PCB4.5 or PCB3.x headers, you need to use the appropriate 0.98* version.  If you're in PCB3 mode, you'd be using 0.97ja or 0.97g.  The 0.98* versions changed the way addresses are generated and data is read; so they won't work on unmodified Willem/PCB3 programmers.

HTH,
Dennis

Re: Reading Problems 27C1024

By: fxseller - 2007-12-04 17:33:13

polling was not my problem, cause the chip do also functions!
but as a precaution i edit my regedit with that hack yesterday...

öhm yes, in addition i tried the 0.98D5 Version, but the same error occurs...


[img][/img]

ww. free.pages. at/ dctuning/ 1.jpg
ww. free.pages. at/ dctuning/ 2.jpg

do u see them now? u have to remove the space characters and add a W at the beginning...

Dennis, i tried to send you a pm with both photos but i also do not know how to add on datas, even if its possible in this forum?!
would u like to give me your mail adress to send them to u via email?
perhaps my jumpers r set wrong? or do i have to set something in the software??? i only choose the eprom 27C1024, do i have to set something else??

regards
Artur

Re: Reading Problems 27C1024

By: DL - 2007-12-05 05:14:33

Hi,

Your programmer looks like it's set correctly.  I have a different 16 bit adapter (like the one in the shop link), but it looks like the only jumper doesn't apply to 27C1024.  You shouldn't need the ribbon cable for your device.

How does the data you're reading compare to the data you expect?  Has the programmer worked for any other devices?

HTH,
Dennis

Re: Reading Problems 27C1024

By: fxseller - 2007-12-05 10:16:29

Hi,

i do not know if the programmer works for other devices, cause its the first chip i want to read. i do only have this 27C1024 otherwise i would have tried other ones...

what do u mean with: i do not need the ribbon cable?!
i need it to combine the adapter with the programmer?!


the data of the chip i read is nearly the same data, the programmer reads without chip!
and the data i expect to read is an original VW engine characteristic map.. its not keyed!
so the reading itself does definitely not work correctly..


perhaps the programmer itself is not able to read a 27C1024 chip?
behaving to the describtion of sivava it should read it!

i tried the readin with power by usb and adaptor! (yes, i jumpered it unequal), even with 5V and 5,6V power - but doesnt work..
what LED have to glow between the readin process?

youre right theres no jumper adjustement for the 27C1024 but over the socket where my chip is inside, you can read that its made for the 27C1024..
hmm, perhaps i have to remove the jumper of the adapter?

have u allready read a 27C1024? does it work with your adapter??

dont know what to do anymore...

regards
Artur

Re: Reading Problems 27C1024

By: DL - 2007-12-05 15:50:44

Hi Artur,
fxseller wrote on 12/05/07 at 10:16:29:
i do not know if the programmer works for other devices, cause its the first chip i want to read. i do only have this 27C1024 otherwise i would have tried other ones...
I asked to try to determine if more basic testing is required.  If it worked for other parallel devices, we could have determined which logic had to be working.  We need to start from scratch.  Enter the Test H/W tab and test each of the signals on the ZIF socket by setting the DIP switches as indicated and clicking on each pin on the screen and measuring the voltage on the corresponding pin on the programmer.
Quote:
what do u mean with: i do not need the ribbon cable?!
i need it to combine the adapter with the programmer?!
All of the signals you require for 27C1024 come from the ZIF socket, so you don't need the ribbon cable in this case.
Quote:
the data of the chip i read is nearly the same data, the programmer reads without chip!
and the data i expect to read is an original VW engine characteristic map.. its not keyed!
so the reading itself does definitely not work correctly..
Could be a problem with the OE or CE signals.  If these signals operate correctly, set your programmer for 27C1024 and repeat the measurements for those two signals.  If that is okay, insert your adapter and measure the signals on pins 2 and 20 on the DIP40 socket.
Quote:
perhaps the programmer itself is not able to read a 27C1024 chip?
behaving to the describtion of sivava it should read it!
27C1024 is supported, I've used them in my 16 bit adapter on a Willem 4.1 with no high order address lines connected.
Quote:
i tried the readin with power by usb and adaptor! (yes, i jumpered it unequal), even with 5V and 5,6V power - but doesnt work..
what LED have to glow between the readin process?
The VCC LED should be on whenever a device in the programming sockets is being accessed.

Something just occurred to me.  I checked the datasheet and 27C1024 can draw up to 30mA from VCC.  That's on the edge for most Willem/PCB3 programmers because the transistor switch will start having a significant voltage drop.  With the addition of the current drawn by the adapter, it may drop VCC too much.

You can check this by entering the Test H/W screen, set programmer for 27C1024, insert your adapter with a 27C1024 in the socket.  Enable VCC and measure the voltage on pin 40 on the DIP40 socket or pin 44 on the corresponding PLCC44 socket.  That voltage must stay above 4.5V to get a reliable read.

Another problem could be the CD4021 (or CD4014).  If you don't have another parallel device with known data, you'll have to install some jumpers to VCC/VSS on the data lines to see if the program can read the bit pattern you select.  You can try jumping all data lines to VCC and seeing if the programmer reads all ONES and then VSS to see if all ZEROES are read.  You do a READ in the Test H/W screen by clicking on the Read Data button above the picture of the DIP switch.  The data read will be in the box to the left of the button.  It'll be 0xff for all ONES and 0x00 for all ZEROES.

HTH,
Dennis

Re: Reading Problems 27C1024

By: fxseller - 2007-12-08 16:16:13

hello,
today i bought the necessary equipment to check the programmer. at the evening i will do it...
perhaps i can write u tomorrow the result of that check.

Quote:
All of the signals you require for 27C1024 come from the ZIF socket, so you don't need the ribbon cable in this case.


oh ok, i didnt get u right but now i unterstand..


Quote:
You can check this by entering the Test H/W screen, set programmer for 27C1024, insert your adapter with a 27C1024 in the socket.  Enable VCC and measure the voltage on pin 40 on the DIP40 socket or pin 44 on the corresponding PLCC44 socket.  That voltage must stay above 4.5V to get a reliable read.


ähm, a little bit emberrassing , but...
i'm a newbie in that kind of technique.. which one is the pin 1, pin 40 and pin 44?  

and of course, just one little ultimate question bout jumpers..

my jumpers are on DC, 5,6V, 12,5V,
Jp1, JP2 normal (Jp1 down, JP2 up)
Software Jumper PCB4.5
and last but not least, VPP instead of A18

these jumper settings are the right ones for reading the 27C1025 chip, yes?


greetings
Artur

Re: Reading Problems 27C1024

By: DL - 2007-12-09 02:43:13

Hi,

Attached is a picture of the pinout for 27C1024 in PLCC44.   For DIP, there's always a notch on one edge of the chip; pin1 is closest to the left side of the notch.

Which headers are JP1 and JP2?   If they're the headers to the right of the ZIF socket, top one should be on the bottom two pins; bottom one on the top two pins.   Everything else looks correct.

HTH,
Dennis